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29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Claire on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:12 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45117163

She had psychiatric problems.

Do you agree with Euthanasia?

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by xtras on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:19 pm

So so sad, that she felt this was the only help which would end her pain .

Her family must have been going through torture themselves knowing she was living in such pain & to be there for her once the decision had been made, you can only admire them.

This is a tough arguement as long as the rules are not abused who are we to judge unless we walk in their shoes we will never know the suffering.

:(
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Claire on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:26 pm

xtras wrote:So so sad,  that she felt this was the only  help which would end her pain .

Her family must have been going through torture themselves knowing she was living in such pain & to be there for her once the decision  had been made, you can only admire them.

This is a tough arguement  as long as the rules are not abused who are we to judge unless we walk in their shoes  we will never know the suffering.

:(

I look at my Dad at the moment and see how distressed he is and think we put our pooch down when he was suffering less.

It's heartbreaking. I can see why the rules are in place in the UK etc but I KNOW my Dad would be horrified if he was aware that this is now his life. Mad

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by xtras on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:32 pm

Sorry Claire not sure I remember your dad's illness.

But when my mum had a severe stroke she lost a lot of her senses.. due to the stroke she had dementia was a horrible time.

But even then saying that how you decide? Truly heart breaking.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Claire on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:43 pm

xtras wrote:Sorry Claire  not sure I remember your dad's illness.

But when my mum had a severe stroke she lost a lot of her senses.. due to the stroke she had dementia  was a horrible time.  

But even then saying that  how you decide?  Truly heart breaking.  

He's been in a delirium since 13th January and is currently sectioned under the mental health act as a danger to himself and others. He has a cathater which means he keeps getting infections and the delirium isn't lifting.

Since being admitted to hospital with an infection and delirium he has had throat infections, chest infections, hospital aquired pneumonia, infections in his cathater site, diff c - it's endless and he currently has a wound infection in his leg.

He's on his 4th anti psychotic and nothing is helping.

This has happened before and he was sectioned then too but it lifted after 3 months and he was able to go home to my mum.

My mum passed away three years ago and this has been a yearly thing ever since. Christmas triggers it - he mourns my brother then (his birthday was 12 December and he died on 4th January) and now he's not got my Mum to mourn with and he won't confide in me or my brother as we are his children.

But this time he's not getting better.

It's horrible.


Last edited by Claire on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by xtras on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:48 pm

Oh Claire how awful .. so sorry to hear this.

It's amazes me how people find strength within at times like this. Keep strong.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Claire on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:53 pm

xtras wrote:Oh Claire  how awful .. so sorry to hear this.

It's amazes me how people find strength within at times like this. Keep strong.

Thanks. I will!

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Geraldine on Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Claire, I'm saddened to read about you dad and your mum too Xtras. x

Regarding Euthanasia if that's what a person wants and has been assessed by a psychiatrist that they are of sound mind then yes. Not sure about the lady in the article due to her mental health, in these cases I think two or three psychiatrist should have to agree.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Claire on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 am

Grant wrote:Claire, I'm saddened to read about you dad and your mum too Xtras. x

Regarding Euthanasia if that's what a person wants and has been assessed by a psychiatrist that they are of sound mind then yes.  Not sure about the lady in the article due to her mental health, in these cases I think two or three psychiatrist should have to agree.  

That's what I'm not sure of. She was really young to want to die and mentally ill. Still I wasn't living her life.

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Geraldine on Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:54 am

Claire wrote:
Grant wrote:Claire, I'm saddened to read about you dad and your mum too Xtras. x

Regarding Euthanasia if that's what a person wants and has been assessed by a psychiatrist that they are of sound mind then yes.  Not sure about the lady in the article due to her mental health, in these cases I think two or three psychiatrist should have to agree.  

That's what I'm not sure of. She was really young to want to die and mentally ill. Still I wasn't living her life.

I know it's a tricky one with the MH issues. Surely more than one Dr would have to assess her and agree.

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by xtras on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:04 am

Thank you for your kind words Grant .. Smile
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by xtras on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:07 am

It says in the article, that it is a place of last resort when rejected by their own GP' s.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Geraldine on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:12 am

xtras wrote:It says  in the article, that it is a place of last resort  when rejected by their own GP' s.

Do they pay for it? If so not sure it's ethical because of course they will say yes if they are getting paid.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Murasaki on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:35 am

Claire wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45117163

She had psychiatric problems.

Do you agree with Euthanasia?

I don’t agree with it being made available easily.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Raymundo Sunshinez on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 pm

Don't think this is right for mental health problems, mental health can improve.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Cobs on Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:08 pm

Claire wrote:But this time he's not getting better.

It's horrible.
My mam and dad are only  just starting down that road.
They both talk about hoping for a swift end already.
I am a coward and don't know what to say.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Claire on Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:55 pm

Cobs wrote:
Claire wrote:But this time he's not getting better.

It's horrible.
My mam and dad are only  just starting down that road.
They both talk about hoping for a swift end already.
I am a coward and don't know what to say.

Tell them you love them. It's all you can say really. You're not a coward - you're their wee boy still.

Stay strong x

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Kizzie on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:58 am

I am very much in two minds about this.

When I was at my lowest I had a few plans in place to end it. All the plans were absolutely horrendous as didn't want anyone to know I killed myself. That was my mentality at that time. Now I think, WTF were you thinking do you really think your children would have been happier knowing you died accidentally in agony rather than peacefully in your bed on purpose. But that is mental health for you.

If I had done it then I would have missed this time in my life where I am the happiest I have ever been. That would be sad but then I would not have known


I still have a plan but the plan keeps me going in bad times. I believe that has helped keep me going when the bad times hit. "If it gets worse then you can end it anytime" I always manage one more day with that thinking

If all people had a plan that could be implemented by family/Drs and friends then I truly believe many people would live longer.

Those who go abroad to die, are dying way before they should because they are scared that they will become too ill to be able to consent or travel.

Mental illness is harder to say if they should be allowed. as for most, it goes in waves. But some are down the dark hole more than out of it and for them, I say it should be allowed. I could not imagine living without any light at all.



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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Murasaki on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:15 am

You say it should be allowed Kizzie but if it was made too easy then you wouldn’t be here today enjoying life.

There are many grey areas to this subject that people need to consider, it’s not just helping to put people out of pain.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Kizzie on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:33 am

THELMA wrote:You say it should be allowed Kizzie but if it was made too easy then you wouldn’t be here today enjoying life.

There are many grey areas to this subject that people need to consider, it’s not just helping to put people out of pain.

I did say if they are down the dark hole all the time then they should be allowed. I cannot imagine carrying on like that My trips down the hole are not that long and only once was it longer and I wanted to end it.

If someone seriously wants to die ( not a fliting wish but a very long one) then should they not be helped to die in peace rather than in pain and often dragging poor bystanders into it?




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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Murasaki on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:40 am

Kizzie wrote:
THELMA wrote:You say it should be allowed Kizzie but if it was made too easy then you wouldn’t be here today enjoying life.

There are many grey areas to this subject that people need to consider, it’s not just helping to put people out of pain.

I did say if they are down the dark hole all the time then they should be allowed.   I cannot imagine carrying on like that    My trips down the hole are not that long and only once was it longer and I wanted to end it.

If someone seriously wants to die ( not a fliting wish but a very long one)   then should they not be helped to die in peace rather than in pain and often dragging poor bystanders into it?  


Yes but unfortunately it’s not always that clear cut. Vulnerable people can be coerced, the dark hole may not last forever, what about finding alternative ways to aid those in those dark holes, wouldn’t the incentive to help them go if death was an easier option? The state has a bigger responsibility than an individual who definitely wants to end their own life.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Kizzie on Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:38 am

THELMA wrote:
Kizzie wrote:
THELMA wrote:You say it should be allowed Kizzie but if it was made too easy then you wouldn’t be here today enjoying life.

There are many grey areas to this subject that people need to consider, it’s not just helping to put people out of pain.

I did say if they are down the dark hole all the time then they should be allowed.   I cannot imagine carrying on like that    My trips down the hole are not that long and only once was it longer and I wanted to end it.

If someone seriously wants to die ( not a fliting wish but a very long one)   then should they not be helped to die in peace rather than in pain and often dragging poor bystanders into it?  


Yes but unfortunately it’s not always that clear cut. Vulnerable people can be coerced, the dark hole may not last forever, what about finding alternative ways to aid those in those dark holes, wouldn’t the incentive to help them go if death was an easier option? The state has a bigger responsibility than an individual who definitely wants to end their own life.

Sadly the state only offers pills or time-limited therapy if you are lucky.

Someone could jump off a building or under a train anytime they wanted, I would prefer they died with family and friends around them than that.

This girl had been like this since age 12 and was getting worse that isn't a life for her, or her family.
Sometimes it's better to let someone go.

My friend's husband died the other week her dog pined away and in the end was PTS. Why is that seen as the right thing to do but a human has to live with awful amounts of pain mental /physical and expect to just carry on

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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Murasaki on Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:43 am

Kizzie wrote:
THELMA wrote:
Kizzie wrote:
THELMA wrote:You say it should be allowed Kizzie but if it was made too easy then you wouldn’t be here today enjoying life.

There are many grey areas to this subject that people need to consider, it’s not just helping to put people out of pain.

I did say if they are down the dark hole all the time then they should be allowed.   I cannot imagine carrying on like that    My trips down the hole are not that long and only once was it longer and I wanted to end it.

If someone seriously wants to die ( not a fliting wish but a very long one)   then should they not be helped to die in peace rather than in pain and often dragging poor bystanders into it?  


Yes but unfortunately it’s not always that clear cut. Vulnerable people can be coerced, the dark hole may not last forever, what about finding alternative ways to aid those in those dark holes, wouldn’t the incentive to help them go if death was an easier option? The state has a bigger responsibility than an individual who definitely wants to end their own life.

Sadly the state only offers pills or time-limited therapy if you are lucky.  

Someone could jump off a building or under a train anytime they wanted, I would prefer they died with family and friends around them than that.  

This girl had been like this since age 12 and was getting worse that isn't a life for her, or her family.    
Sometimes it's better to let someone go.  

My friend's husband died the other week her dog pined away and in the end was PTS. Why is that seen as the right thing to do but a human has to live with awful amounts of pain mental /physical  and expect to just carry on  
 

Because people are not dogs. People have free will, if they want to end it they can. There are many ways to do it that aren’t violent.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Kizzie on Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 am

THELMA wrote:
Kizzie wrote:
THELMA wrote:
Kizzie wrote:
THELMA wrote:You say it should be allowed Kizzie but if it was made too easy then you wouldn’t be here today enjoying life.

There are many grey areas to this subject that people need to consider, it’s not just helping to put people out of pain.

I did say if they are down the dark hole all the time then they should be allowed.   I cannot imagine carrying on like that    My trips down the hole are not that long and only once was it longer and I wanted to end it.

If someone seriously wants to die ( not a fliting wish but a very long one)   then should they not be helped to die in peace rather than in pain and often dragging poor bystanders into it?  


Yes but unfortunately it’s not always that clear cut. Vulnerable people can be coerced, the dark hole may not last forever, what about finding alternative ways to aid those in those dark holes, wouldn’t the incentive to help them go if death was an easier option? The state has a bigger responsibility than an individual who definitely wants to end their own life.

Sadly the state only offers pills or time-limited therapy if you are lucky.  

Someone could jump off a building or under a train anytime they wanted, I would prefer they died with family and friends around them than that.  

This girl had been like this since age 12 and was getting worse that isn't a life for her, or her family.    
Sometimes it's better to let someone go.  

My friend's husband died the other week her dog pined away and in the end was PTS. Why is that seen as the right thing to do but a human has to live with awful amounts of pain mental /physical  and expect to just carry on  
 

Because people are not dogs. People have free will, if they want to end it they can. There are many ways to do it that aren’t violent.

But then they have to die alone.
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Re: 29 Year Old Helped to Die by Dutch Doctors

Post by Murasaki on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:22 pm

Why would they want to put loved ones through seeing them die before their time?
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