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Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:52 pm

Is this good use of tax payers money, especially for a case like this...….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5825085/Sadistic-transgender-killer-Paris-Green-set-20-000-sex-change-operation.html

IMO this beggars belief and it's nothing to do with bigotry or any sort of phobia, but this 'man' killed another man in the most sadistic way and now expects the tax paying public to fund it when there's people having operations cancelled daily due to lack of funds...…

I have no problem with people doing whatever they want to their bodies however strange I may find it if they pay for it, and gender reassignment is a lifestyle choice and not medical need so should be paid for by the person wanting it...….

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:20 pm

Gender Dysmorphia isn’t a lifestyle choice Micky. Lots and lots of people live a miserable life because of it, some to the point of suicide. I think it’s exvellent we are a country that recognises how difficult it must be and offer the best treatment (which is gender reassignment).
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:35 pm

NN wrote:Gender Dysmorphia isn’t a lifestyle choice Micky. Lots and lots of people live a miserable life because of it, some to the point of suicide. I think it’s exvellent we are a country that recognises how difficult it must be and offer the best treatment (which is gender reassignment).

Just read about GD, and correct me if I'm wrong but all these people need is HRT rather than a very expensive surgical procedure...…. shrug

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:18 pm

Micky wrote:
NN wrote:Gender Dysmorphia isn’t a lifestyle choice Micky. Lots and lots of people live a miserable life because of it, some to the point of suicide. I think it’s exvellent we are a country that recognises how difficult it must be and offer the best treatment (which is gender reassignment).

Just read about GD, and correct me if I'm wrong but all these people need is HRT rather than a very expensive surgical procedure...…. shrug

It’d depend on the degree of the issue.

My best friend is a female to male transgender. He had a full hysterectomy and his boobs removed, but hasn’t had any surgery to his genitals. He finds he’s perfectly happy now and can live as a male with no issues.
HRT wouldn’t have shrunk his boobs, and without surgery he’d still be using very painful binders to keep his chest flat.

Some are happy with just HRT, some need more. It just depends on the severity of the conditions and the feelings of the person suffering.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:55 pm

NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:Gender Dysmorphia isn’t a lifestyle choice Micky. Lots and lots of people live a miserable life because of it, some to the point of suicide. I think it’s exvellent we are a country that recognises how difficult it must be and offer the best treatment (which is gender reassignment).

Just read about GD, and correct me if I'm wrong but all these people need is HRT rather than a very expensive surgical procedure...…. shrug

It’d depend on the degree of the issue.

My best friend is a female to male transgender. He had a full hysterectomy and his boobs removed, but hasn’t had any surgery to his genitals. He finds he’s perfectly happy now and can live as a male with no issues.
HRT wouldn’t have shrunk his boobs, and without surgery he’d still be using very painful binders to keep his chest flat.

Some are happy with just HRT, some need more. It just depends on the severity of the conditions and the feelings of the person suffering.

Did your friend pay for the surgery?

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:01 pm

No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:05 pm

NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:17 pm

Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:25 pm

NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.

Well he could've had counselling and HRT but even then if he still wanted the surgery he should still have had to pay for it, bcos there's people with life threatening conditions that could be helped with drugs yet are being denied bcos the drugs are supposedly too expensive, yet your mate rocks up and basically says 'I cant live like this anymore its destroying my life its unbearable bcos I need to be a man but I want it for nothing' etc...…...puhlease…….

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Stevie on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:32 pm

Micky wrote:
NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.

Well he could've had counselling and HRT but even then if he still wanted the surgery he should still have had to pay for it, bcos there's people with life threatening conditions that could be helped with drugs yet are being denied bcos the drugs are supposedly too expensive, yet your mate rocks up and basically says 'I cant live like this anymore its destroying my life its unbearable bcos I need to be a man but I want it for nothing' etc...…...puhlease…….

If you think it's as simple as that, then you are sorely mistaken.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:36 pm

Stevie wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.

Well he could've had counselling and HRT but even then if he still wanted the surgery he should still have had to pay for it, bcos there's people with life threatening conditions that could be helped with drugs yet are being denied bcos the drugs are supposedly too expensive, yet your mate rocks up and basically says 'I cant live like this anymore its destroying my life its unbearable bcos I need to be a man but I want it for nothing' etc...…...puhlease…….

If you think it's as simple as that, then you are sorely mistaken.

So please tell me......

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:37 pm

Micky wrote:
NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.

Well he could've had counselling and HRT but even then if he still wanted the surgery he should still have had to pay for it, bcos there's people with life threatening conditions that could be helped with drugs yet are being denied bcos the drugs are supposedly too expensive, yet your mate rocks up and basically says 'I cant live like this anymore its destroying my life its unbearable bcos I need to be a man but I want it for nothing' etc...…...puhlease…….

Actually, he was referred to a GIC after an attempted suicide. Many trans people live with debilitating depression before treatment.

It’s far more complicated than you presume. Maybe your anger should be directed at the drug companies who drive up the prices, rather than those who need help. Surgery is a one off, relatively cheap treatment when compared with the cost of continued life long treatment that won’t actually work.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:42 pm

NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.

Well he could've had counselling and HRT but even then if he still wanted the surgery he should still have had to pay for it, bcos there's people with life threatening conditions that could be helped with drugs yet are being denied bcos the drugs are supposedly too expensive, yet your mate rocks up and basically says 'I cant live like this anymore its destroying my life its unbearable bcos I need to be a man but I want it for nothing' etc...…...puhlease…….

Actually, he was referred to a GIC after an attempted suicide. Many trans people live with debilitating depression before treatment.

It’s far more complicated than you presume. Maybe your anger should be directed at the drug companies who drive up the prices, rather than those who need help. Surgery is a one off, relatively cheap treatment when compared with the cost of continued life long treatment that won’t actually work.  

What gives me the hump NN is when people like your mate get surgery when they could be sorted through counselling and/or HRT, yet someone who might need surgery to save their life gets refused, so if people like your mate CAN pay they SHOULD pay, and people with genuine surgical needs shouldn't be denied bcos of cost......

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Stevie on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:50 pm

Micky wrote:
NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:
Micky wrote:
NN wrote:No, it was done on the NHS, through his Gender Identity Clinic.

So it wasn't life or death surgery then NN, it was done with tax payers money to appease your friends vanity and feelings, so lets call a spade a spade here NN...…..
Well no. His mental health issues aren’t about vanity. If you’d read about GD you’d know that that was a serious condition that is so much more than just vanity.

There are lots of surgeries that aren’t life or death. That shouldn’t be the qualifier.

Well he could've had counselling and HRT but even then if he still wanted the surgery he should still have had to pay for it, bcos there's people with life threatening conditions that could be helped with drugs yet are being denied bcos the drugs are supposedly too expensive, yet your mate rocks up and basically says 'I cant live like this anymore its destroying my life its unbearable bcos I need to be a man but I want it for nothing' etc...…...puhlease…….

Actually, he was referred to a GIC after an attempted suicide. Many trans people live with debilitating depression before treatment.

It’s far more complicated than you presume. Maybe your anger should be directed at the drug companies who drive up the prices, rather than those who need help. Surgery is a one off, relatively cheap treatment when compared with the cost of continued life long treatment that won’t actually work.  

What gives me the hump NN is when people like your mate get surgery when they could be sorted through counselling and/or HRT, yet someone who might need surgery to save their life gets refused, so if people like your mate CAN pay they SHOULD pay, and people with genuine surgical needs shouldn't be denied bcos of cost......

People who need surgery to save their life don't get refused Micky. I'm really unclear about where you get such an idea from and besides, as NN's friend had tried to commit suicide then you are arguing against yourself there because that surgery did actually save his life.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by jp762 on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:52 pm

Micky all NHS Hospitals will put Life or Death Surgery first, before anything else. I don't think anyone rocks up and gets things done pronto.

There will be all kinds of chats with many experts including mental health experts before the decision is made to allow anyone to have the surgery.

I think this has come up on Dogs before and I said the same thing there. It is understandable that many people don't get it, and fail to get their heads around this kind of thing. But you could just as easily say the same thing about many other things. We aren't in their heads we don't know how they feel.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Stevie on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:56 pm

And NN is correct, an operation to reassign the gender is far cheaper for the NHS in the long run than long term treatment with medication, counselling and the likely emergency care for someone who has tried to take their own life.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 pm

Micky wrote:

What gives me the hump NN is when people like your mate get surgery when they could be sorted through counselling and/or HRT, yet someone who might need surgery to save their life gets refused, so if people like your mate CAN pay they SHOULD pay, and people with genuine surgical needs shouldn't be denied bcos of cost......

But counselling and/or HRT aren’t a cure for many with GD. And anyway, it’d cost more in the long run than the surgery would.

And anyway. GRS can be life saving for many receiving it.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by NN on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:11 pm

Stevie wrote:And NN is correct, an operation to reassign the gender is far cheaper for the NHS in the long run than long term treatment with medication, counselling and the likely emergency care for someone who has tried to take their own life.

Exactly. This is what I was trying to say.

The MH services are already struggling, imagine adding to it all the people who’ve been successfully treated with GRS.
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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Micky on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:11 pm

At least we can discuss this calmly and sensibly on here and have a robust and frank exchange of views without getting pathetically trolled, so you see guys I really don't want to row all the time and I actually do find this a fascinating topic and I'm glad we're discussing it properly at last, and I'm more than willing to listen and possibly have my views changed, and I really do understand how difficult it must be for people to think they're living in the wrong body, and after what I've heard on this thread, I really do have genuine sympathy for these people now, and I genuinely mean that......

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Re: Gender Reassignment.......

Post by Kat on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:56 am

I watched a programme a while ago very very good about it all
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